Sorry but you don't get it. You're assuming that accurate data persuades. It does not. The issue isn't lies themselves. The issue is that correctly structured lies literally hack the mind. https://underlore.com/debate-is-a-myth/
My assumptions, in terms of persuasion, really don't care what the reality is. The point is about who is paying the media that is doing the persuading. I take your point that the masses are not susceptible to logic. I explained to my Mom 60 years ago that "the masses are asses" and I have not seen reason to change that opinion. The important thing for a society is that the reality they are presented with, is shared. We believe in differing realities.
Which is why I provide for changes in how the media presenting the information is paid for. The media manipulates the amygdala, and it mostly does what it is paid to do. Getting agreement on the reality to be presented is a matter of there being more difficulty in getting a lot of different people to agree on one version of a lie, than there is to getting them to agree on the truth. It is a level above the masses it manipulates.
Give people an indication that they may be being lied to, and choices, will there be any inclination to choose truthful sources? People do, after all, choose to listen to Fox news, despite everything we know about Murdoch's media. My expectation is that if repeated reminders that it is an "entertainment" (much as Rush Limbaugh's defense was that his show was for entertainment), not a source of facts, are presented, it will dampen the enthusiasm with which people believe everything they hear there.
I don't mind if people debate endlessly, and without agreement, about what policy is useful to solve a problem. Policies aren't real or not real. The problem, however, has to be the real deal, with everyone understanding what IT is, for the debate to remain peaceful. In science, we don't debate, or discuss, facts or evidence. We debate and discuss the explanations for those facts. The first part is not questioned, it gets more study and experiment to get agreement about what the facts are. When the evidence tends to be "all one way", a consilience, it becomes accepted as fact no matter what opinions the scientists might have about the explanations (theories) that apply to them. It is with respect to our theories, our stories that explain, that the amygdala dominates.
Thank you for your real reply, I'm sorry I can't spend the 4 hours on a follow up that I used to or that it deserves. My real life is too much of a shithole. I don't have warm running water. I understand what they meant now when they said philosophy is a rich man's hobby. All this stuff feels pointless when I'm this far down on maslow's hierarchy. P.S. Masses are asses. Amen brother.
Dang! I wrote for half an hour, spotted a typo, tried to put in an italic for emphasis, and it's gone. Beginning to really hate on the Substack edit functions here.
I see, it doesn't let me change it. It SAYS I can edit it, but I can't really. Not here in the comments. You get to live with the typos and lack of emphasis. Sorry.
Sorry but you don't get it. You're assuming that accurate data persuades. It does not. The issue isn't lies themselves. The issue is that correctly structured lies literally hack the mind. https://underlore.com/debate-is-a-myth/
You might have a point.
My assumptions, in terms of persuasion, really don't care what the reality is. The point is about who is paying the media that is doing the persuading. I take your point that the masses are not susceptible to logic. I explained to my Mom 60 years ago that "the masses are asses" and I have not seen reason to change that opinion. The important thing for a society is that the reality they are presented with, is shared. We believe in differing realities.
Which is why I provide for changes in how the media presenting the information is paid for. The media manipulates the amygdala, and it mostly does what it is paid to do. Getting agreement on the reality to be presented is a matter of there being more difficulty in getting a lot of different people to agree on one version of a lie, than there is to getting them to agree on the truth. It is a level above the masses it manipulates.
Give people an indication that they may be being lied to, and choices, will there be any inclination to choose truthful sources? People do, after all, choose to listen to Fox news, despite everything we know about Murdoch's media. My expectation is that if repeated reminders that it is an "entertainment" (much as Rush Limbaugh's defense was that his show was for entertainment), not a source of facts, are presented, it will dampen the enthusiasm with which people believe everything they hear there.
I don't mind if people debate endlessly, and without agreement, about what policy is useful to solve a problem. Policies aren't real or not real. The problem, however, has to be the real deal, with everyone understanding what IT is, for the debate to remain peaceful. In science, we don't debate, or discuss, facts or evidence. We debate and discuss the explanations for those facts. The first part is not questioned, it gets more study and experiment to get agreement about what the facts are. When the evidence tends to be "all one way", a consilience, it becomes accepted as fact no matter what opinions the scientists might have about the explanations (theories) that apply to them. It is with respect to our theories, our stories that explain, that the amygdala dominates.
We no longer have agreement about facts.
Thank you for your real reply, I'm sorry I can't spend the 4 hours on a follow up that I used to or that it deserves. My real life is too much of a shithole. I don't have warm running water. I understand what they meant now when they said philosophy is a rich man's hobby. All this stuff feels pointless when I'm this far down on maslow's hierarchy. P.S. Masses are asses. Amen brother.
Dang! I wrote for half an hour, spotted a typo, tried to put in an italic for emphasis, and it's gone. Beginning to really hate on the Substack edit functions here.
I see, it doesn't let me change it. It SAYS I can edit it, but I can't really. Not here in the comments. You get to live with the typos and lack of emphasis. Sorry.